Talk:List of Nobel laureates by country

Daron Acemoglu and Armenian Nobel Laureates

In my opinion, if we include Ardem Patapoutian solely on a basis of ethnicity, we should include Daron too. Both are fully Armenian by heritage. Also, there should be an indication that they are Armenian by descent and not by birth. Athoremmes (talk) 13:24, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Armenia

Daron Acemoglu is not from Armenia. He does not have an Armenian citizenship. Neither his father nor his mother was born in Armenia. Being of Armenian ethnicity does not mean having an organic bond to the modern state of Armenia, if that was the case we would be listing every single Jewish laureate under Israel. He should only be listed under Turkey and USA, as these are the countries he is a citizen of. 176.216.143.64 (talk) 22:16, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

We include the ancestry as a determinant for the inclusion under the country in some cases. This is why the “category” notion is used and not the “country” and the note under Armenia denotes that they are added on a basis of their ancestry.

I agree, “list of Jewish Nobel laureates” should be included under Israel too, but not the full one.

Nobel laureates, who are ethnically Turkish, will also be included under Turkey, given a chance.

Athoremmes (talk) 09:54, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

"In some cases"? In what cases? The fact that you don't say in all cases implies that this is subjective and therefore inappropriate. It's like saying, "Nationality is whatever somebody feels like defining it as in a particular case" which is an invalid basis for categorizing or sorting anything here.

I'm American. My parents were Americans, US-born. One grandfather was born Romanian. If I win a Nobel Prize, nobody should be pretending that I am a Romanian laureate, as though Romania were somehow entitled to claim some glory on my account.

Being Jewish and being Israeli are two different things. You say that as though Israel owns all the world's Jews. It's false and offensive to lump them (us, in the case of Jews) together. I've never even been to Israel. If I win a Nobel Prize, it is absolutely not an Israeli achievement. Largoplazo (talk) 20:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

This list has apriori an element of objectivity due to the term "country" being vague in this case. For example, Daron Acemoglu was born in Turkey, is of Armenian ancestry, but worked primarily in the US. Should he be only listed under Turkey? I suppose that would be quite a stretch for a lot of people.

Israel is an ethnostate. Athoremmes (talk) 20:49, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

If Acemoglu isn't from Armenia and isn't an Armenian citizen, then Acemoglu isn't a laureate from Armenia.

Re your Israel comment, irrelevant. The day Israel came into existence, all the Jews of the world didn't automatically become citizens of, nationals of, residents of, or affiliated with that state. Largoplazo (talk) 14:00, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

He is Armenian and is, therefore, related to Armenia as per ethnic basis. Moreover, we state explicitly there that we use the data for Armenia on the ground of one's ethnicity Athoremmes (talk) 18:18, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

This is pretty dubious. For instance, the article on Carpentier says she had one Armenian grandparent. Why is Armenia the sole exception? You wouldn't call an American citizen with a Japanese grandparent Japanese. Bkatcher (talk) 13:34, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Well, we use that for an Estonian nominee and she initially had an Armenian surname, and I think this is fair since it is specified in Armenian nationality law that you are considered an ethnic Armenian by state if you are 25% Armenian. The same nationality laws apply in other countries like Israel, on a same basis. But I agree, it may be an exaggeration Athoremmes (talk) 00:14, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

You may be considered an ethnic Armenian, but unless they grant you citizenship, you're not an Armenian national. Bkatcher (talk) 02:29, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

We need to have a list of Tanzanian laureates and it needs to include all laureates because all of humanity has ancestry there. Largoplazo (talk) 16:36, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Emmanuele Charpentier

Charpentier is 25% Armenian and she is vocal about it. We add people of partial ancestry (Hassabis), so why won't we add Charpentier too, who is also of partial Armenian descent? The problem lies in 25% which is not the same as 50%, which Hassabis has, but it is enough for the application for Armenian citizenship and is already used in the List of Jewish Nobel laureates. Athoremmes (talk) 15:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

We shouldn't be using ancestry at all. If I and my parents are American but I have one grandfather who was born in Romania and I win a Nobel Prize, I should absolutely not be listed as a Romanian laureate. It's using Wikipedia to claim glory on behalf of countries based on people who aren't from those countries just because some ancestor was. Largoplazo (talk) 20:22, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

If you don't claim being Romanian as your identity, I see no reason you should be listed as a Romanian. With Daron, Ardem and Charpentier this is not the case. Athoremmes (talk) 20:45, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

If they aren't from Romania and aren't Romanian citizens then they aren't Romanian. Attempting to make classification as subjective as possible is antithetical to Wikipedia's purposes. Someone looking up a list of Nobel laureates from Romania is most likely interested in answering the question "Which Nobel laureates are from Romania?", not "From which Nobel laureates can Romania claim reflected glory on account of their having a great-grandmother who emigrated from Romania in 1887?" Largoplazo (talk) 16:46, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia respects one's identity if the article is about person's identity. If person would state that he is Christian, it would be reflected on his wikipedia page (if he is relevant enough, of course) and he, therefore, would be added on a list of Nobel laureates of certain religion. Athoremmes (talk) 18:22, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

If we're going by identity, then we need to replace "country" with "identity" and include non-sovereign identities, including Sami, Kurdish, Hazara, Hmong, Amazigh, etc. If one is to argue that we should go by identity but only if it's an identity that's associated with a sovereign nation, then that's racism, including only selected identities and excluding all others. Largoplazo (talk) 16:42, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Well, we can't include them since they don't have a country which represents them. But I think that we may broadly discuss adding unrecognized entities like Abkhazia and South Ossetia, as well as specifying that Athoremmes (talk) 00:17, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm late to the discussion, but in no other instance does having one grandparent qualify for national inclusion in this list. We're getting into weird race science. Bkatcher (talk) 02:28, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Hungarians According to Hungarian citizenship law

There are additional 9-10 who were born as Hungarian citizens. Vazulvonal of Stockholm (talk) 18:45, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Should we guess who they are or are you going to tell us? Largoplazo (talk) 20:31, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

I was forced to delete some you added. They need to be in chronological order, with the name of the discipline they won in noted. Bkatcher (talk) 14:29, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Ruzicka was born in Kingdom of Hungary

Ruzicka was born in Kingdom of Hungary so why do people erase it? Vazulvonal of Stockholm (talk) 18:36, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Birth country and citizenship at birth should be included on same premises

Birth country and citizenship at birth should be included on same premises Vazulvonal of Stockholm (talk) 13:04, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

"... included on same premises": Might this be a translation problem? I'm not one to pick at other people's usage—except when I don't understand what they're asking and I'm trying to. I (native US English speaker) don't know what you mean by this. Largoplazo (talk) 16:50, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Quarter-ethnicity included in some countries

Quarter etnicity should at least be be notified, if it should be included at all, which is highly questionable. Vazulvonal of Stockholm (talk) 09:44, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Ethnicity should be treated as irrelevant.

Why does this go on here in the Nobel laureate lists? You don't see this kind of thing in lists of actors or novelists. Largoplazo (talk) 13:20, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Birth country and citizenship at birth should be included in some lists

Birth country and citizenship at birth should be included in some lists. Some delete these, despite it is proven where the individuals were born and what citizenship/s they had at birth. So why do some remove without argument? Very simple: Check birth-country and citizenship/s at birth! Vazulvonal of Stockholm (talk) 00:28, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

I've been deleting your entries because you've been slapping all your new entries at the end of the list instead of chronologically, and not bothering to use capital letters. Bkatcher (talk) 03:49, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Hungarians According to Hungarian citizenship law

Adding references about rules.

1. Alfred Hermann Fried,Peace 1911

Vazulvonal of Stockholm (talk) 19:19, 19 December 2024 (UTC)Before October 1st , 1957:

A child became a Hungarian citizen only if his legitimate father was a Hungarian citizen. The child of a Hungarian mother and a non-Hungarian father didn’t become Hungarian citizen by birth.A child became a Hungarian citizen only if his legitimate father was a Hungarian citizen. The child of a Hungarian mother and a non-Hungarian father didn’t become Hungarian citizen by birth</ref>, Before October 1st , 1957:

A child became a Hungarian citizen only if his legitimate father was a Hungarian citizen. The child of a Hungarian mother and a non-Hungarian father didn’t become Hungarian citizen by birth.<ref><https://losangeles.mfa.gov.hu/eng/page/hungarian-citizenshipref> So..."eraser-editor" out there: Fried was born as a Hungarian citizen. So if you erase him AFTER this I will not get your point at all.Earlier you actually had Some points concerning citizinship. But according to ethnicity you were wrong. Many Nobels for many other countries are included on ethnicity only and some are half, even quarter-other-nationals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vazulvonal of Stockholm (talk • contribs) 19:38, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

References

Hungary has 25?

The list contains 15. Neonchameleon (talk) 14:24, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Neonchameleon Fixed it. Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 15:51, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Hungary has substantailly more than 15 if nationality at birth is included. According to Hungarian nationality law children inherit hungarian fathers nationality, e. g. Bárány, Polányi, Wiesel, Gajdusek, Fried, Politzer and others.Ruzicka and Prelog were born in Hungary so they too should be included.

Hungary has substantailly more than 15 if nationality at birth is included. According to Hungarian nationality law children inherit hungarian fathers nationality, e. g. Bárány, Polányi, Wiesel, Gajdusek, Fried, Politzer and others.Ruzicka and Prelog were born in Hungary so they too should be included. If also ethnicity is included there would probably be more. There are ca 27 either born as hungarian nationals, and more with ethnicals.Stigler (mother), Glück (father), Karle (mother), Osheroff(mother), Furchgott(father) Vazulvonal of Stockholm (talk) 14:49, 21 December 2024 (UTC)